These are questions and answers as gleaned from the ConSimWorld Discussion Board, as answered by Alan Ray, the Devloper. These are in roughly chronological order. I also didn't include any Q&A that was specifically addressed by the errata, which you can also find here.
Updated: Friday, July 18 2003
1. Can multiple inactive forces intercept (or attempt to intercept) the same active force at the same time (with, potentially, some succeeding and some failing)?Each interception attemp is separate. If an attempt is successful, the intercepting Force can attempt to call in an additional friendly Force via Coordination.
2. Is double envelopment only possible for the active player, or does it apply anytime two forces intercept the same force (at the same time)? (This would assume the answer to 1 is yes.)Double Envvelopment only applies to the active player in response to a successful interception.
3. Are coordinated attacks only possible for the active player (and coordinated defense only for the inactive player)?No, both players can Coodinate.
Does it apply during interceptions/counter-interceptions?Yes.
Is it the intent of the rule that a Force improves its situation only when a leader's activation chit is drawn,Yes. That's the only way to have a Campaign Phase.
that leader is already inside a qualified city with a Force, and the leader spends his entire activation 'regrouping' the troops?No. The leader can do whatever he wants. Forces that remain in the appropriate sized city recover one ABS.
Or can a leader move from city to city (given the necesary continuation rolls), refroming various Forces in a single activation?Not necessary. All forces in the medium/large cities that do nothing recover the ABS level.
Or are leaders necessary at all for Recovery? ('Recovery' is not defined as an Operation under 5.6).No -- other than you have to have an active leader to have a Campaign Phase.
I was able to download the rules last month and have a question regarding rule 9.54. It states that after a city surrenders that the defending SP's are placed in any playable hex. Do you mean any adjacent playable hex?No, any playable hex is correct.
A quick question on the Thunderbolt scenario. If the Carthaginians manage to obtain more than one Victory in a single year, can they get reinforcements more than once?Yes, but read the rest of the restrictions.
(Hmmm, another question. Could Hannibal have detached a subordinate leader to intercept the Romans ...Yes, see 5.43 and the the restrictions in 5.13
and tried to pull a Double Envelopment?)No, the original active player is the one that can pull the Double Envelopment.
Do the guile points ( for each leader ) re-set at the beginning of each turn? Or is the allotment meant to last the entire game.Each turn - See 5.52
The RRR special rules note that two Roman magistrates cannot have imperium in the same province. What if I have two consular armies in a particular province and want to prorogue both consuls?The prorogued proconsul retains the province imperium he was originally assigned as consul/proconsul. The province he is currently in has nothing to do with the assignment. See RRR 5.35.
1) Can a force (of 4+ SP of Cavalry or 20+ SP of Infantry) make a Same Hex River move/interception without a Leader? 6.35 doesn't mention it, but then 6.5 requires one.The force needs a leader.
2) The Diplomacy section (12.31) in the rules doesn't jive with the box summary on the Alliance Track Chart.12.31 is correct. The chart is missing the 1 and 3 box adjustments for successful seiges.
4) 8.25 states Coordination rolls are before the attacking player makes his Continuation roll, but the Pre-Combat chart on the front of Player Aid #1 lists Coordination occurring after the Coninuation roll is made and Battle is joined.8.25 should say after not before
Also, the same chart in step 4 only lists only the Attacker checking for Coordination, but the rules describe that both the Attacker and Defender may check for Coordination.Step 4 should read attacker and/or defender
5) I see that Elephants may be transported across Straits (7.34), but can they also be transported by Sea?Yes.
6) May a force Overrun (6.62) across a River if a Road is present?No.
7) May Legions transfer SPs amongst themselves in the same Consular Army as long as RL and AL points are not mixed?No.
8) If I fail with a Coordination roll (8.25) for one force, may I continue trying with other eligible forces until one succeeds?No, only one attempt is allowed.
Counter Printing Question: The backs of most "1" counters is a "2". However, a little under half of the Legion Cavalry have a "1" on the front and on the back (the others have a 2 on the back). The next size up is a 2 with 3 on the back.That should have been a 2 on the back of those seven counters.
) If a force crosses two River hexsides to Intercept, does it suffer a +1 or +2 drm? +1Make that +2 -- +1 for each river hex side crossed
Clarification request: the doubling of cavalry sp's for attrition purposes - cavalry sp's are not also doubled for the combat ratio adjustment, are they?No. Movement attrition (6.4) applies only when a Force moves and accumulates Attrition Points. So ...
1) Is Reforming Scattered Units an Attritionable offense? (Gathering all those troops together)No
2) Can Scattered Units move?Yes but it is treated as Useless ... not a good idea to move a Useless Force.
Is the Scattered marker removed during the Recovery Phase?No. See 7.28 to see how to remove this state.
3) Does Involuntary Surrender (9.42) cause Attrition? (All those troops looting etc)No.
4) Does Treachery (9.6) cause Attrition? (more looting etc)No.
5) Does Siege Assault (9.4) cause Attrition? (I don't think so but want to be sure)No -- an assault is a fairly blood affair already.
6) Using Ally Move (6.13) What is an "Ally" under this rule.Allied troops are those affiliated with a given side either by the scenario setup or the alliance track.
Could a Consul move a stack of Roman Inf (or is Ally specifically defined as another National Unit Type)?No. See above.
Are Auxilleries "Ally" Units to the Romans for this rule?No. See 10.35.
Inertia Attrition applies if a force does not move outside a province the entire year. That implies that a force can move only within a province, and still suffer Intertia Attrtion during the End-turn Phase.Correct. The Force has to leave the province to avoid Inertia Attrition. The Force suffers Movement Attrition each time it moves.
The Attrition Chart lists Infantry or Elephants as no adjustment, and Cavalry double, so I'd presume for Siege Attrition (9.32) Cavalry would count 2x.Yes.
Pat, the Inertia Attrition Example on pg 10 is correct. For hex C (Hasti) the small city reduces the Accumulated Attrition Points from 2 (province rating/clear hex) to 1. Checking the chart, 75 SPs lose nothing for 1 point of Attrition.Correct.
1) There are Diplomatic control markers for the Mamertines and Messana, but don't they represent the same thing?Yes. Use the Messana marker.
2) Can you please clarify 9.21, placing a City Under Siege, as the wording seems contradictory. Does it (a) require a Movement Stop (and Attrition check), then a successful Continuation separate from the Movement, then the Declaration of Siege (and the Leader thus is Finished) as the second sentence implies....or (b) the force moves into the hex, declares and places the Under Siege marker, Stops and makes the Attrition check, and is Finished as the first and third sentences indicate?A Siege Operation (which includes placing a City under Seige) is a separate operation. Case a above is correct.
3) 6.24, after checking for Attrition, dropped off units/Leaders can't perform any actions since only 1 Leader may be active at any time (5.21), correct?.Yes.
In other words, dropped off units cannot do anything else that phase (even declare a City Under Siege?),Yes.
and dropped off Leaders are auto Finished?Well, no. They were never active so Finish doesnt apply.
That implies if a force moves within its starting province, including whatever that may entail such as battles, takes Movement Attrition as the rules dictate, and ends the turn in the same province, that it suffers Inertia Attrition also. Is this so?True, if it never the left the province in that game turn.
is there a Roman OC in the Thunderbolt scenario? The scenario setup doesn't seem to designate one.Yes. See 5.1
" . . . 25 new Gallic infantry. Question - can these be placed with the army in Placentia or must they start in a province further away,See Manpower, page 25 RRR booklet -- they are placed with any Carthaginian Force in or adjacent tp the province where the victory occured.
and do they assume the larger army's disrupted status?"Yes
Hannibal could get an involuntary surrender from the unmanned Placentia garrison - would receiving this surrender automatically end Hannibal's phase or could he still roll for continuance? Would the army be in a siege status when the siege counters are chosen, or is the siege ended with the previous surrender?He can Continue per 5.3 Case F. Involuntary Surrender is not a Siege Operation.
I determined that one used (5.44) BOTH CONSULS PRESENT to see who was the current OC.Correct.
Mark, I'm going with the Thunderbolt specific rules, that either consul, Scipio or Longus, can be chosen at the start to be the Roman OC. I named Longus as the OC to follow the historical advice under Starting the Game; also see Consuls under Special Rules. You can pick either one to be OC.Actually they are both OC's. However, if together 5.44 applies. Longus should get the initial LAM per the scenario special rule, but that doesn't mean he is the exclusive OC.
the white imperium counters - do these follow a particular leader around to indicate the province he must remain in?The Imperium markers are used as reminder as to which province a magistrate is assigned. With appropriate permission, a magistate may leave his assigned province.
For attrition, if a force begins movement in a hex adjacent to another province, and crosses into that adjacent province, does it count the AP for both provinces or just the province moved into?In this case, the one moved into only.
Field Consul: RRR 5.13 states, "Field Consul...may go anywhere (within 5.41...). I assume that means the Field Consul must perform the Permission Procedure (RRR 5.45) when leaving its initial province, otherwise, it is subject to Censure. Correct?Correct. Note that a Consul, either type, doesn't have to be assigned a province, though they would be limited to Roman Italy. Note that a Proconsul always must be assigned to a province.
Little confused (not unusual) about the Legion Request Table for Thunderbolt. Basically, just go by the number of legions in existence columns?Yes.
Not sure why [Thunderbolt] is in brackets above 7-11 unless I use that column for Thunderbolt regardless of the number of existing legions.No.
[Scenario for NS level] written on the Chart doesn't make sense for Thunderbolt as there aren't any NS levels anyway.There were at one time ....
Am I missing something here? It seems to be pretty clear - if you move inside a city, it is a Stop. To drop units off inside the city, you need to move inside the city. Thus it is a stop.You are correct.
How can this be read so that dropping units off inside the city isn't a stop?Got me ...
Mark Novara brought up this point about legion training which hasn't yet been addressed. The rule as stated seems to indicate that you can only train newly raised legions... thus, you can't bring legions back to rome to try and "blood" them on the Field of Mars.Correct. Only newly raised legions can be trained and only if the P. U. is in Rome during the Training segment. On cities and garrisons: 1) To be garrisoned a city must have 1 or more infantry SP inside the city. 2) the minimum SDS comes into effect when a Small City (IDS 1) has a garrison of 1 SP. The SDS is 2 not 1 3) Ungarrisoned enmey/neutral cities still must be placed Under Siege. In this case the SDS is equal to the SDS. See 9.12. And don't forget 9.52 ....
Does the "command efficiently" of 5.24 equate to the "command/undertake operations" of 5.19?No.
Or, as I would interpret it, does it only refer to combat and siege where, in the above example of a Consul (let's say he's a "D") and his subordinate Proconsul have moved their FOUR double legions into battle and now suffer some inefficiency since a D can only handle THREE efficiently?Yes.
So for RRR 5.15 Add to the end of the last paragraph: Dictator (and Magister Equitum see 5.16) LAMs equal to the selected leaders Initiative Rating(s) are immediately placed in the pool.As one of you pointed out, the above is subject to the limitations of 5.14. I'll note that in the final wording of the change.
This leads to a couple more questions, unfortunately. Can the Dictator still also be chosen during the Election Segment (RRR 5.15) or MUST he now be immediately chosen as soon as the conditions apply?For a Mandatory Dictator, he must be chosen when the emergency conditions arise. So if the Romans lose two major battles in the same turn, the Dictator must enter with the next Roman LAM. If the Dictator is Voluntary, he may enter the Dictator and any subsequent Roman LAM. The major battle Emergency is only in effect in the turn that they occur. As a result, the only way to get a Dictator during an Election segment is through the city occuption conditions.
A) Does the "appointment" (during the turn) take the LAM Operation of a Mag. or just happens at that time?Happens at that time.
Later on, Praetor Gluteus Medius marches into town with his double legion consisting of a Veteran RL of 4 SP infantry/1 SP Cavalry and an AL of 4 SP infantry/ 3 Cavalry. If he wants to pick up the garrison, he MUST give 2 SP to the RL and 3 SP to the AL.Correct.
Maybe this is obvious, but should the die roll adjustments be taken in the Battle Results Table in order from top to bottom? I ask because the results from the War Elephants Table could affect the die roll modifier from the Combat Ratio Chart.First, all DRM are cumulative. Second, the Elephant segment is resolved in total prior to the Battle Die roll. All lossess are extracted as they occur in the Elephant segement. The DRMs from Elephant table are cumulative. Any losses could indeed affect the various ratios It would probably help if we switch step 1 and 2 in the sequence ... which is may be what you were really asking ....
So, if I am reading the chart correctly, there are no roads in the Alexander and Samnite scenarios?No. See the special rule and augury table for the Samnite/Alexander scenario. The following two segments exist: Rome to 3613 (Via Saleria) and the Via Appia from Rome to 3914.
For a Mandatory Dictator, he must be chosen when the emergency conditions arise. So if the Romans lose two major battles in the same turn, the Dictator must enter with the next Roman LAM.
And if they are out of LAM's (not unlikely in Thunderbolt since there is only one)? Election Phase (I'd assume) or the first LAM of the next year?No, your out of/in luck unless the city occupation emergency conditions exist in the election segment.
The Consul LAM was finally chosen, and Rome must choose a Dictator since they've already lost two major battles (RRR 5.15). Dictator Verrucosus (scenario rules) automatically becomes OC but may not be Prorogued. Since it's a Consul LAM, and since no new LAM's are added for Romans following casualties (RRR 8.67), does Dictator Verrucosus do nothing at all in the first turn, and then is automatically removed from office at the start of the second turn?The Roman player adds a number of Dictator/Magister Equitum LAMs into the pool equal to the Initiative Ratings for the leaders holding those offices. Only the Dictator (not the Magister Equitum) can perform Manpower and Diplomatic operations. So for RRR 5.15 Add to the end of the last paragraph: Dictator (and Magister Equitum see 5.16) LAMs equal to the selected leaders Initiative Rating(s) are immediately placed in the pool.
My first thought when I draw the Siege Attrition chit is "What happens if both forces attrit to 0?" I say, "The answer is in rule 11.2!" The Gauls never had a combat unit in the city, so they never gained control, even though the IDS temporarily went to 0.Correct.
But then, what if 1SP of Gauls survived? We go to the "Sack Time" rule and roll against "the active leader's Campaign Rating". But there is no active leader! To this, there was no answer in the rules. Nothing I found said a leader need be present. On my own (and without the aid of counsel) I determined then that "Sack Time" should be automatic (Zounds! you say.). No leader, no control.Well, since 9.22 requires a leader to place a city Under Siege, 9.24 bullet #2 implies that a leader must be present to maintain the Siege. Also see the opening paragraph of 5.0. So well add a fourth bullet to 9.24: There are no friendly leaders in the hex. We have an issue with Looting. Add the following to 9.75: If the city falls during a Siege Attrition Phase, the Sacking player uses thehis most senior leader (see 5.12 and RRR 5.21). If there is no senior leader, the Sacking player picks the leader of his choice.
After a force performs a successful Involuntary Surrender on a city, is it assumed to be inside the city?Yes.
A) Is the LAM (in the example above) still used by the Mag. it was drawn for?Yes.
B) Is the LAM just used up by bringing in the Dictator?No.
C) Ever consider just placing the Dictator when the "Events" happen that cause an auto placement, without waiting for a LAM to be drawn?Yes. Since the arriving leaders could be used defensively, we wanted the non-Roman player to at least finish his current LAM's unaffected by the leader reinforcement.
D) RRR 5.32 "Dictator: Place in Rome unless already in Play." vs. RRR Page 4 Left Column "Dictator: Chosen; May not come from leader already in play." Are both correct?No. Drop the "unless already in play".
Speaking of this scenario, one thing I can't get my mind around is the provision that "all provincial control is military". Just what does this mean?We had a last minute correction to the Thunderbolt scenario and it looks like I didn't get some of the old rules out. So... For the Thunderbolt scenario, ignore the Provincial Control section except for the city IDS levels.
The scenario special rules state that "A player may freely enter cities in a province if that province's Alliance Level marker is in his favor." Does this mean that the Carthaginians can now enter any city in the province without going through siege/assault/treachery/involuntray surrender, and simply garrison it to gain control?Yes, if the city is unoccupied.
Do they last for the entire Scenario (once gained) or only the turn following their gain by a Magistrate?The entire scenario or until the leader Visits Pluto. On Thunderbolt ...
Does Rome control, say Calabria at game start? It has no troops there.NO.
Also, when it says Carthage needs seven Italian provinces, does that exclude everything north of Etruria and Umbria?No. However, the correct wording of the victory condition is: The Carthaginian player wins if he controls any seven contiguous Italian provinces that begin the game with an Alliance Level in favor of Rome ...
Interceptions: 5.6 States [para] "...Interception if only for non-active Forces..." But in Double Envelopment sections and others Interception is implied the the MOVING (Active) Force can also intercept an intercepted Force. Is this correct?Yes within the confines of 6.56/7. The general rule 6.5 describes the general capabilty. 6.56 and 6.57 are special activities that are triggered as a result of the non-active force using that general capability.
1) Is the simple definition; "If any Force (Active or Non-Active) is intercepted by two enemy Forces it is a Double Envelopment." Right?Looks right.
2) In additon to the above; "The Active Force may intercept any enemy Force that is moving (for inteception purposes only) to intercept a friendly Force." Right?No. This can occur only if another friendly force intercepts the original intercepting force.
1) A Force fails its interception DR, a marker is placed on it. It then has a successful Coordination DR with a Friendly Force that intercepted an Enemy Force. What Happens to the +2 Modifier?It stays with the Force until the end of the current Campaign Phase. It has no effect on the ensuing battle. See 6.55 Failed Interceptions.
2) (8.23) Avoidance Failed DRMs markers, how long do they last? The INT Failed markers state they last until the end of the current Campaign Phase. But the Avoidance does not state this; could they be only a DRM vs. the Force which caused the Avoidance attempt?It applies for that battle only.
3) (8.26 #4) A Coordinated DR is made and is a success. The Force is moving to join a Friendly Force in a Battle, can this Force be intercepted?No. One battle at a time please.
4) "(6.53) Interception Restrictions"; (This entire section needs to have some stuff added or something - ehem imho). A) Can a Force make unlimited Avoidances and then intercept? B) Are Coordinating Forces immune to interception?A) as long as the rules of interception are follwed, yes. B)Yes. This occurs during an Attack Operation, not a Move Operattion.
5) Coordinated Attack Restrictions (8.25) Last sentence. Why is it that a Force that succeds to Avoid can't Coordinate but a Force that Fails to intercept can?'Cause that's the way we want it to work ... the avoiding force tried to get away and failed, why would anyone want to join in?
1) For Carthage to gain control of a province, it needs to fulful the rules for military occupation. In the case of Calabria, that's Tarentum + 2/3 of the other cities.Yes, but Diplomatic control works as well.
2) If Carthage shifts the alliance level for Calabria to its side, it gets the benefit of not having to siege the cities, but still must fulfil the requirements for physical occupation.Yes, unless Carthage attains diplomatic control.
3) If Carthage ever fails to fulfil the requirements (e.g., Rome retakes all cities in Calabria EXCEPT Tarentum), Carthage loses control.Unless it has Diplomatic control, in which case Rome would have to achieve military or diplomatic control.
4) Although Rome does not control many of the provinces in Italy at start, this is largely immaterial except when it comes to legion placement.Rome can move into the cities just as easily as the Carthaginians
Not sure of this one so I'll withhold comment. For Legion placement I'll continue to place new Legions in provinces with favorable Roman alliance levels.Control means control. Either military or diplomatic.
Do you have any errata for the other scenarios yet? Or should we wait before diving into those?There is no errata that I know of at this time.
For Calabria it's having an SP in Tarentum and control of one of the other three Small cities.Correct. The player would have Military Control.
Does this mean the rules for controlling provinces HAS changed?No. See 11.0 and 12.0, Military Control and Diplomatic control. Militart Control, which is determined in terms of city control, takes precedence over Diplomatic Control, which is determined via the Alliance track.
It's not clear to me in RRR 5.18 whether the Praetor Urbanus rolls twice in the training segment for two new legions, or a single roll covers both legions,Once per legion.
Okay, I am back to being confused. I thought there was no diplomatic control in the Thunderbolt scenario? Or was that part deleted?No, only 12.3 is not used. The rest of 12.0 applies.
Question: Can the Praetor, leading the sole legion, use its campaign phase to attach itself to the army? i.e., Is such a move considered to be "picking up units"?No. A Praetor can only command one (double)legion so he couldn't pick up any additional units.
Once the Praetor's LAM is drawn, he can freely attach the ME.No, this is a violation of the hierarchy ... see 5.31.
He would also do so were an interception attempted from that city.See 5.13 for limitations. Furthermore, the P could only take one (double) legion woth him. Now, the ME is the Overall Commander, so 5.13 applies.
I see the confusion where under Manpower, it relates that all control is Military, except for Umbria and Picenum (which start +4 Roman).Note the errata -- the Provincial Control section has been deleted except for the city IDS changes. Rome controls Latium (military), and Umbria/Picenum (Diplomatically) at the start of the game.
Regarding siege operations, the leader must first move to a city and declare a siege and Stop. In his next phase he can first try an assault or treachery, but he can't try those during the same phase he moves to the city, correct?Correct.The Cirty must be placed Under Siege first -- and this is an automatic Finish.
But in the T'bolt scenario there is no distinction between Rome Consul and Field Consul, see the special rules.True, but only one consul can use the Manpower Operation.
Another quickie regarding siege assaults - port modifiers for scenarios without sea rules - ignore the port drm's or assume one side or the other has sea control?The Naval rules and any modifiers having to do with them are ignored.
There doesn't seem to be any provision for disbanding legions. Can a legion drop off its last SP and go out of business?There is no rule prohibiting you from doing this.
And another one. Etruria appears to be a single province for purposes of diplomatic control.Yes.
But it's two provinces for other purposes, like attrition, right?Yes.
What about the effects of events in Etruria on adjacent provinces? If Hannibal wins a Major Victory in Northern Etruria, does Sabinus, which is adjacent to Southern Etruria, count as an adjacent province?No.
Questions also came up about the Praetor Urbanus. Neither the Thunderbolt scenario, nor any of the others, calls for a PU at start. Do the Romans get one anyway at start, or do they have to wait until Turn 2 and elect one then?You wait.
3. If there were, say, two Praetors in the hex with Longus, as OC he could move/avoid/intecept/attack etc. with the entire stack, as there are now enough leaders to command all the legions.Yes.
Likewise, if attacking or defending, no CER peanalties would apply. Or does the CER apply regardless of the presence of subordinates?NO. CER is always measured in total legions regardless of subordinates.
And another Thunderbolt question, this one regarding the Carthaginian command structure: No Carthaginian OC is listed in the scenario rules, though it's pretty obvious that it's Hannibal.Hannibal is OC.
But with Hannibal wounded, can any of the other Carthaginian leaders activate the entire army? Are any of the leaders senior/subordinate to the others?No and No. See 5.13 the only real negative effects of not having an OC is the inability to use Guile and move Unled Forces. Hannibals ratings, however, are quite impressive.
Question regarding the revised Thunderbolt victory conditions:
The Carthaginian player wins if he controls any seven contiguous provinces in Roman Italy that begin the game with an Alliance Level in favor of Rome . For victory purposes, Northern and Southern Etruria are counted as separate provinces. Do both diplomatic and military control count? It's possible (though probably not likely) that major victories and/or devastation could push some of the initially pro-Roman provinces into the Carthaginian camp.Yes.
One other question, this one regarding the Alliance Level Tracks: if I understand the Control rules correctly, the '4' boxes on the Independent track are superfluous, since once a province moves into the '4' space, it's controlled by one side or the other, and moved to the appropriate Allies track. Am I right?You still need the 4 box on the Independent track to move into so that you can then move to the appropriate Allied track ...
1. If the Carthaginians approach, Longus can intercept or avoid with only two double legions due to command limits (RRR 5.19);Yes, to Intercept, no to avoid. Avoidance is part of an enemy Attack operation so the whole Force participates.
likewise, when his LAM is pulled, he could only move two double legions.Yes.
2. If the Carthaginians attack the Roman stack, Longus will command all four double legions, but suffer a DRM due to exceeding his CER. Likewise, if the Carthaginians stopped in his hex without attacking and Longus subsequently activates, he could attack with all four double legions, again with a CER penalty.Yes.
But with Hannibal wounded, can any of the other Carthaginian leaders activate the entire army? Are any of the leaders senior/subordinate to the others?
No and No.
Actually be 'Yes and No'? 5.13 only covers situations in which the OC is present with the force. With Hannibal out of play, there is no OC, and no limits/restrictions on force activation for the rest of the Carthaginian leaders - Right?You are correct, they are all eligible to activate the entire army.
I'm setting up the Samnite scenario, Conquest of Central Italy, and I don't see Calabria listed in the Provincial Information Chart. Assuming Calabria should be included, what would be its starting position on the Alliance Level Track?Calabria is Tarentum.
Alan, a clarification, if you please, regarding the composition of consular armies for Samnite - a consular army consists of only one or two Roman Legions, not three or four, filling out the Army Display Box?Two Roman Legions = one consular army in the Samite scenarios.
Alan, how does the Roman player handle a Proconsul (or Praetor) led force that needs to move outside its assigned province for Coordination, Avoidance, or Interception?By default you don't have permission to leave. The way you get permission is to conduct a Senate Permission Operation during a Campaign Phase. A granted request lasts the entire turn. If the leader hasn't been granted permission, he can't use Avoidance to leave. He can use Interception and Coordination because 5.41#3 applies. If he does so choose, he then is subject to censure at the conclusion of the current Campaign Phase.
I assume the force could still go ahead and avoid/intercept/coordinate, without Senate permission, but just run the risk of Censure (RRR 5.46).Yes to Interception and Coordination and no to Avoidance.
3. Every province except Latium, Picenum and Umbria is independent and under no one's military or diplomatic control. Therefore, no army may enter any city (other than Romans in Latium, Picenum and Umbria) unless there's already a friendly combat unit there (as in Pisae, Arretium, and Ariminium) or it captures the city in a siege action. Or are independent cities open to any army that enters them?The "therefore" part is incorrect for the T-Bolt scenario. See the Thunderbolt Special Rule on Diplomacy, last sentence.
4. Once Carthage moves the alliance marker for a province to 4 on its side, it achieves diplomatic control of that province. From that point, since no one has military control, Carthage may freely enter any cities in that province that don't have an enemy garrison.True, but see the above.
1. Rome begins with military control of no provinces and diplomatic control of Picenum and Umbria by virtue of the (revised) scenario rules.Rome has military control over Latium (see 11.12). Rome has Diplomatic Control over Umbria and Picenum per the PIC.
2. Carthage begins with military control and and diplomatic control of no provinces.Correct.
I assume this means that the activated leader simply passes, with no chance for continuation?No, he just cant leave the city. He can do Manpower, ask the Senate, etc.
Well, the sub commanders can't take control of the entire army, if they are in the same stack as the OC (Hannibal). They can only take control of 1/2 the army (5.13 A). So I suppose I could reorg 1/2 the army with one commander's LAM and the other half with the other one, when they come up.Command has nothing to do with it. The entire Force recovers.
1) When counting casualties, is use of the Percentage Loss Chart mandatory, or just a calculation aid? If you have 16 SP and 25% losses, adding the results under the 10 and 6 columns gives you 5 SP in losses, when it is of course obvious that 25% of 16 is 4.Yes, mandatory but if you want to do the math each time and agree on a rounding scheme go for it. Just dont mix the two approaches.
2) On the Roman Manpower table, do you count single or double legions when figuring out which column to roll on? E.g., in the Thunderbolt scenario, the Roman has four double legions. Does he roll on column one or column 2?Double with the Samnite scenarios being the exception, so column one in your example.
4a) An army may only change its status (in/out of city) as a result of a Movement operation or taking the city via Siege/Treachery/ etc. Correct?Yes. For this answer and the rest on cities I assume the city is friendly
4b) If an army is outside a city in the same hex, can it avoid battle into the city? What is the modifer to the roll?Yes. DRM ?? Whatever applies on the Avoidance Table. Once inside the city, its Seige time ...
4c) Can a defeated army retreat into a city in its same hex?Yes. So noted now in the errata
4d) An army in a city cannot offer battle to an enemy army entering its hex (unless it is activated). Correct?It could intercept prior to the enemy force entering the hex .
So an enemy army can enter the hex and plop down a siege marker without having to fight your army. Correct?Yes. But see play note in 8.22
4e) If your army stops inside a city after movement, or after an involuntary surrender, but the city capacity is too small to contain all the troops, how do you handle the following:There are no stacking limits.
But what is the general rule for entering cities in Independent provinces? Can you do it only when you have full Alliance (4 levels in your favor)?You can if you are Allied, i.e. diplomatically controlled.. The marker doesnt have to stay in the 4 box . See 12.24
If you get military control, do all the other cities open their gates to you?Yes.
If you're besieging a Large or Medium City, then you can't be in control of the province, and thus cannot forage. If I'm reading the rules correctly, you can only forage if you're besieging a small city in a province you already control, and thus the example must be wrong. Is that correct?
He could either start the scenario with control or be exercising Diplomatic Control, to control a province without controlling one of the Large Cities in it.Correct. The rule reference in 9.33 should be (11.0/12.0)
Hannibals army after the first battle was disrupted and after the second disorganised. This didn't stop him from attacking though. Each one of those major victories earned him 25 Gauls.Depends on where the battles occurred.
The romans pulled back to Rome. can they enter the Rome hex and be outside the city or is the whole hex out of bounds?They can enter the hex, and Rome if the Senate grants permission.
As far as I can tell, you don't have to split off anyone to do this. Whenever you draw a Carthaginian LAM, that general can take control of the whole army and reform it. Am I playing this wrong?If the leader of the drawn LAM is stacked with a Force inside a Large/Medium, that Force recovers a level if it and the leader stay put. The leader can do other things as long as he remains in the city.
1) Can a force Retreat into a City that is in another Hex?Yes, if the city is friendly.
2) Can a force Retreat into a City in the same Hex?Yes, if the city is friendly.
3) Can a Force Retreat 3 hexes and drop off SP in the 1st Hex, 2nd Hex?No, the force must stay together.
4) Can a Force Retreat into different Hexes?No.
In a RRR game (not the one at Jonathan's where we used all the roads, ehem Jim's fault Jim's fault) I intercepted Hannibal in Rome's Hex with the Urban Legions and some Aux. Troops. The battle went as expected! The Legions (by the way we interpreted the rules) Retreated/Fled into the countryside as they could not Retreat into the relative safety of Rome. It just seemed they would choose to protect Rome and use its defenses than run away from it. Is this the correct way to read the Retreat rules?The Urban Legions are free to enter Rome (see 5.42) the others are on their own.
5) Battle result of "*", that side rolls die and loses X amount of SP. Are these SP lost as per the % loss rules or is it the players choice which units to lose?Per the % loss rules.
I thought I had this straight, that the Romans could only use the Legion Request Table once per turn, but now I see 10.0, saying the OC can roll on the Table a second time when his second LAM is drawn. Correct?Yes.
Are there any scenarios limiting the use of the Roman Table to one per turn?Dont think so, although the Alexander scenario has it own means of raising troops.
Am I correct then in saying that a sub commander can decrease the ABS during his activation.Well, the ABS is improved because the Force and the leader whose LAM is drawn stay in the Medium/Large city for that entire Campaign Phase.
When sub commander activated whilst in a seige condition can he assualt with half the force?Yes. Assault is an Operation. And I assume the OC is with the Force? If not, there is no force limit.
New Legions when raised in Rome, who takes command of them.Depends if any of the on-map leaders have the capacity to lead them. If not, each double legion gets a Praetor subject to 5.17. Also see 5.18 and 5.32 (Proconsul).
So when you do an Avoidance, you don't have to go anywhere, right? And then if the opposing general gets a continuation, he can just try to attack again, and you can "avoid" again by not going anywhere? Interesting tactic.You can stay in the same hex if you wish
1) I admit to some confusion on what a consul can command. If you have two consular armies in one hex with two consuls, can one consul move both? If you want to intercept or avoid with them, is it one roll or two?
No, not in the Campaign Phase. Each would attempt interception separately,
This is what I thought the rules said, but there were instances where Consular armies operated in tandem.Consular cooperation is handled Via the attack operation -- they can attack/defend together (and avoid), and Coordination. Two consular armies rarely moved together or operated in the same general area for any length of time. Rarely was there coordination at a campaign level due to politics and supply. p>
1) Can the Gaul event occur more than once in a game, unlike the Spartans who can only appear once?More than once.
2) If so, what happens if the Gauls are still on the map from a previous turn and the event is rolled again in a following turn?Ignore the event, they are already in play.
2) Do the Gauls trigger tribal attacks when they enter provinces?Same as Samnite Incursion.
3) Are both Gaul LAM's always placed in the cup without exception?Yes.
1) Rome receives two new RL Legions during the fourth turn. I wish to place each in different Roman-controlled cities. May I place a Praetor with each during the turn, keeping in mind the 50% maximum, or may only Proconsuls be placed during a turn?RRR 5.17 says anytime. Since in this scenario has no double legions, one Praetor for each RL is ok.
2) A Proconsul is given command of two RL's with an Imperium in Lucania. The Proconsul receives Rome's permission to enter neighboring Apulia to seige Apulia's undefended cities. Assuming defeat of Apulia's resulting tribal assault, can the Proconsul's army remain in Apulia and be assigned a new or prorogued Proconsul in the following turn, i.e., what effect does the Lucania Imperium have in the following turn if the army ends the turn in Apulia?Yes, the province of assignment must be the province the army is in Apulia in this case. Note that Consuls are not assigned provinces per the scenario special rules, so the former applies to a Prorogue only.
Must it return to Lucania or can it stay in Apulia, and does Lucania's Imperium attach to the new Proconsul, or is Apulia now his new imperium?Apulia.
3) Considering Conquest's special rule allowing sacks of surrendered cities, does Rome receive two boxes in its favor on the Alliance Level Track if it sacks a city tht has surrendered via the Involuntary Surrender Table?Yes, a Surrender is a Surrender.
Four sacks of Apulia's minor cities would then result in eight boxes worth of shifts on the Track?Yes. 4) Other than possible Looting and lowering the city level, are there any other adverse effects when Sacking a city? 9.74 says that Sacking may affect relationships with nearby allies, with supposedly bad implications in 12.3, but 12.3 has only favorable shifts for the player. Yes, special rules such as Roman Retribution as above.
5.13 A) prevents a force from "leap-frogging" with the OC, allowing the sub-ordinate to only take up to half the SP. What prevents a force with Mago and Maharbal from doing it? Each may ride along with the force during the other's activation (per 5.42), correct?As long as the OC isnt present, yes.
It just doesn't make sense to penalize the OC stack and let the little guys do this.Point is that the little guys cant carry the OC, but they can carry each other.
1) I admit to some confusion on what a consul can command. If you have two consular armies in one hex with two consuls, can one consul move both? If you want to intercept or avoid with them, is it one roll or two?No, not in the Campaign Phase. Each would attempt interception separately, They, however, avoid together using 5.44 to decide who is in charge, since Avoidance is part of an enemy Attack Operation.
2) One oddity was what I call the 'Alba Fucens Factor'. When I moved on Rome, I detached Mago with a force that took Alba Fucens. Later I broke the siege of Rome and moved south, leaving Alba Fucens by its lonesome. It turned out that the Romans were better off leaving Alba Fucens in enemy hands as it gave them Manpower bonuses and a free Dictator each turn. This seemed a little gamey to me.Thatll teach to poke the bear . Well let you voluntarily relinquish control if no troops are present in the city.
3) Is Verrucosus eligible to be Dictator on successive turns? We played that he was ineligible in 217, but eligible again in 216.Yes. It was not that unusual for a Dictator to repeat if the emergency is was grave.
1) Is it true that provinces in the Samnite favor, in any box on any Alliance Track, are also friendly to the Gauls?Yes.
2) There is an Etrurian tribe located in Etruria, Etruria is on the Independent track 1 box favorable to the Samnites, and the Gauls are 5 hexes above them in Gallia Cispadana. May the Samnite player move the Gauls through Etruria to besiege cities in other provinces unfriendly to the Samnites, or are they limited to only attacking and besieging the Romans and/or cities in Roman-controlled provinces?The Samnite player uses them as he would his own units subject to the specific restrictions noted in the special rule on Gauls
RRR 5.18 Case A: Change reference to RRR 10.41. I guess we could also make the same change in RRR 5.43?Yes.
And in the Thunderbolt scenario Provincial Information Chart, I guess the [a] note ("Only if Capua is controlled by the Carthaginians, otherwise 0") is applicable to Campania's 4/0 yearly manpower?Yes.
About Triumphs: The magistrate must leave the army in an adjacent hex to Rome and Stops, then enter Rome. 1- Can he leave the army in the Rome hex?Yes.
2- Stops means that if they fail the Continuation roll he's finished?Yes.
3- Can he wait another year/years to get the Triumph?Yes.
I think Grant meant that he was detaching some with each subordinate in which case his new found interpretation is correct. If you start with one Elite contingent, you will always (throughout the scenario) have but one Elite contingent.Correct.
The Devastation penalty is a 4 box movement on the Alliance Track in the opponent's favor, but what if the box is already at -4?The marker stays at -4.
Does this also apply if a Proconsol is created for any reason during the course of the turn. And the Magister Equitum?Yes, subject to 5.14 and any Praetors too
If a magistrate goes off map by leaving his office and not beeing prorouged (or becomming proconsul) and comes back later (let's say as a praetor), is it still possible to celebrate a triumph?No.
You may well be right, but I am confused because the rules make no provision for any permanent formation larger than the SP. So (for example) it makes no difference if one's Numidian cavalry is represented by a 10 and 3 counter or by 13 '1' counters. In this circumstances the use of the word 'detach' is ambiguous, because what are you detaching from?Let me clear this up. Replace the last two sentences of 8.17 with: Any Elite SP that are detached or split off in any way from the current force are replaced by non-Elite SP of the same Contingent and Type.
And I further assume, that if a player has 13 Numidian SP, and moves off with six of them, that he is free to determine which is the detachment and which is the parent formation?No, the six that move off are converted.
If during the course of a turn a Dictator is required by Mandatory conditions, is his LAM placed in the pool.Yes, subject to 5.14
If a magistrate goes off map by leaving his office and not beeing prorouged (or becomming proconsul) and comes back later (let's say as a praetor), is it still possible to celebrate a triumph?
No.Well, let me back track on the Triumph issue -- ignore what I answered before. The correct procedure is that the Triumph must be celebrated in the game turn it is earned, otherwise the opportunity is lost. 8.53: Second sentence should end with: satisfies, in the same game turn, all of the following:
Where are the negative NS markers?They are MIA. Use a spare control marker to indicate a negative level until we provide replacements ...
Avoidance question: Both Roman Consuls occupy the same hex, and the Roman player wants the Consular armies to avoid combat. I assume that per 5.44, you roll to see which Consul is in command. If that's the case, can you cancel the avoidance attempt if it turns out that the lower-rated consul is in command?No. You have made the decision to Avoid which precipitated the die roll ...
1. When a player enters a tribes province and activates its army, the other two players dice for control of that province. What does the player that wins the dice gain? Is it just control of the tribal army? Do all the cities in that Province become friendly to him? Or what?He gains control of the Tribe. Control of the Province is determined via 11.0 and 12.0. So no, the cities are not friendly to that player though they are friendly to the Tribe.
2. As the Romans do not have double Legions in this period, how many Legions can a Consul control. Is a Consular army only 2 Legions or is it 4 Legions?Two.
3. When a player gains military control of a province, do all the other cities in that province that he didn't control now open their gates to him?Yes, unless they are controlled by the other player. This happens when a player gains control (does matter which type) over an independent province whose cities haven't been taken by the other player.
This question has probably been dealt with before, but, if so, I missed the answer. If one player, e.g., the Roman, takes military control of a province that contains only small cities, by occupying 2/3 of those cities, does that player maintain control until (1)another player, e.g. the Samnites, controls 2/3 of the cities, or (2)only until the Roman's control dips below the 2/3 mark? I assume it's (1).Actually its #2. For non-home provinces the player needs to meet the requirements of 11.0 to maintain military control. If in the above, Rome loses military control, control then reverts to the player who has diplomatic control. If there is no diplomatic control, the province is then independent. Some further commnents on province control and city control. If player gains control of a province, all cities not occuppied by enemy forces are friendly to the controlling player. However, to gain control of these friendly cities, the controlling player must meet the requirements of 11.2.
1) Etruria is one province for diplomatic control. What about for military control? Will control of Pisae, Arretium, and any small city in either Etruria garner military control of both Etrurias?No. They are separate provinces for military control. However, to receive the manpower from Etruria both provinces must be controlled by the player.
2) 6.35 Control of rivers: a non active force intercepts the active force after it crosses a controlled river. In the ensuing battle, the non-active force is the "attacker." I take it there is no DRM to penalize the active force for crossing the river, since it is the defender in the interception?Correct.
3) 9.32 Siege attrition. If the besieged city is unoccupied, I assume the city rolls on the 1-10 SP column? What happens if the result is a 1*? From the table: * = If there is only 1 SP moving, treat as a '0'. There are no SPs present, and no one is moving.Per 9.14, the IDS is treated as SPs, so for a Small City this would be 1. The 1* is treated as a 0, ignore the word moving. However, if an unoccupied Medium City was involved (IDS 3) and that city had more than one IDS point left, the result would be a 1 SP (IDS) loss.
The entire Carthaginian army is besieging Arminium. Gisgo's LAM is drawn, and he wants to try an assault.
(1) Per 5.13(a), since the OC is present, is Gisgo limited to using only half the strength points in the assault?Correct.
(2) For the purpose of determing the leader with the better Battle rating (9.43, third bullet), is Gisgo's rating used, or Hannibal's (per 5.13(b))?Hannibal.
Lessons learned in the Samnite scenario - Romans should try for diplomatic control instead of military control in the provinces other than Samnium. Two surrenders and sacks of any two small cities will convert a province from 0 on the Alliance Track to +4. Any existing tribe disappears with diplomatic control (Assume that's right, Alan?)No, Military Control is required see the Length of Activation rule.
So, for example, can a Roman leader in a hex with a Legion that he doesn't command activate and move away, taking some/all of the Legion SPs (but not the Legion itself) with him? I don't see any rules that specifically prohibit this, but it would seem to go against the intent of 10.26.No. The Roman Command systems allows the various leaders to command (conduct operations with) legions or combinations of legions and auxiliary forces. So unlike the non-Roman player, the Roman player cannot command individual Roman SP. A Roman commander can, however, defend with any loose SP -- defending is not an operation.
What happens if you have 2 consuls in the same province and you want both of them be prorrogued as proconsuls?See 5.35, second sentence. A consul is Prorogued to his assigned province. The exception to this is noted in the errata: RRR 5.35 Add to the end of the case: Exception: If the Consul/Proconsuls force is outside his original assigned province, treat the province he is currently in as the assigned province for the purposes of this rule. If by chance both consuls meet the above criteria, you can pick either with the other going to the pool
That's not possible, so, can I make one of them proconsul and the other praetor?No.
or prorogue one of them in that province and the other in another province.No.
And if they are prorgued.. both stay in that province or one of them mut go to his assigned province?Won't happen.
But the Consul for Rome has no assigned province - so if you prorogue him, where does he go?You can't prorogue him unless he has an assigned province.
What happens if you have 2 consuls in the same province and you want both of them be prorrogued as proconsuls?
See 5.35, second sentence. A consul is Prorogued to his assigned province. The exception to this is noted in the errata: RRR 5.35 Add to the end of the case: Exception: If the Consul/Proconsuls force is outside his original assigned province, treat the province he is currently in as the assigned province for the purposes of this rule.
If by chance both consuls meet the above criteria, you can pick either with the other going to the poolOk, let me about face on this a bit.
See 5.35, second sentence. A consul is Prorogued to his assigned province.Is correct. The errata below is NOT.
RRR 5.35 Add to the end of the case: Exception: If the Consul/Proconsuls force is outside his original assigned province, treat the province he is currently in as the assigned province for the purposes of this rule.Instead add the following: RRR 5.34 Leader Movement should read Leader or Force Movement. The long and short of it is that a consul or proconsul can only be prorogued in his ASSIGNED province. No assignement no prorogue. If the prorogued magistrate starts outside his assigend province, RRR5.34 as modified above applies. Once in his province, he can operate normally un that provinces and seek permission to leave. Playing the Samnite scenario there were some questions:
If you have Militar control there is no future revolt possibility?No.
The Rows on the revolt table concerning Campania are correct? it seems both rows have the numbers changed, or is a very random table.Tribal Revolt Table: The Campania Row is incorrect. Since I can't seem to paste it so you can read it, it will appear in the errata.
9.74 (Sacking) references to 12.3 (diplomatic effects on allies) but there is no diplomatic effect for sacking a city except Roman Retribution (RRR section).Thats correct.
Legion Request: -1 for every roman italy province controlled by enemy. Samnium counts for that in the scenario?Yes.
2 consuls are stacked sieging a city. If one of then make an assault can he use too the consular army of the other consul?Yes, but 5.44 applies.
1 consul arrives to an hex with another consul and an enemy army, stops and attack. Are the 2 legions involved in that attack or must the 2nd consul make a Coordination roll?Yes, see 8.27, and 5.44 applies
RRR 10.22 says that only a Consul or Dictator can recruit. RRR 5.13 says that manpower actions are only for Consul for Rome. Recruit table gives a -1 DRM if the recruitment is made by Field Consul. Can recruit both consuls or only rome consul?Rome Consul. The DRM comes into play in the Thunderbolt scenario where no distinction between consuls is made.
A praetor assigned with a legion in Samnium can go to Apulia if a Consul takes him with his legion? or must he first make a senatorial request to leave the province?The praetor must have permission to leave.
There are two lams for Cleonymus of Sparta, but the rules says he does'nt use LAMS.. what are the LAMS used for?For potential future use.
I have 2 consular legions outside Latium. Elections are called so i will have 2 consul, one in rome and another with one of those legions. The other legion is available for the Rome Consul and only for him o can I call a proconsul to use it?You can draw a proconsul. He must be assigned the province the army is in.
When you retreat must you make an attrition check and count the ALPs for retreat apart?What attrition check? A retreat accumulates ALPs which translate directly to SP losses.
Checking my rules knowledge with regard to the 1SP suicide attacker
a) If the romans are doing it, doesn't a praetor have to take a (his)whole legion with him?Yes, though he could detach all but SP along the way.
b) Doesn't the leader have to make a continuation roll to attack? If he has a good campaign rating, why risk him in suicide?Yes.
c) If the opposing army is near a friendly city, couldn't they just avoid into it?Yes
d) Since you are using a leader, afterwards, when you are overrun, you lose the leader for the rest of the game... losing LAM's permanently for non-romans.Yes.
e) If you do it to the Romans, you give them a veteran legion - (a victory is a victory)Yes.
I do have one question: can a subordinate (say Mago), attempt to intercept a nuisance force, using less than 20 SP, which will avoid after-battle effects altogther.Correct.
I have a quick question that I can't seem to find reference in the rule book. Can a disorganized or useless force intercept? I see that a disrupted force gets a modifer but nothing is mentioned about the other two states. Common sense seems to tell me they can't.They can't.
When making a move to an uncontrolled port, do you count the port capacity in determining when one can debark?No. Use the other terrian.
Assume Pyrrhus has 25 SP. Can Pyrrhus sail into Croton if it is independent with no garrison?No.
Does he gain control of it, or must he have the usual siege?Siege time ...
What about Rhegium if the Campanians are there???? Are they allies. If the port is friendly you can enter the port, if not ... siege time.
I think you just quoted the Campania row on the Tribal Revolt Table verbatim...Which might explain how it was garbled in going from the Word file to the publishing software ...
1) The Consul for Rome can never be prorogued, since he's not assigned a province.When he is not that's true, but see 5.32.
2) The consuls in Thunderbolt cannot be prorogued, because they're not assigned a province.Correct. The T-bolt scenario is meant to be simplified. For example, Scipio was assigned Spain and after the Trebbia went there and was later prorougued ... but this out of the scope of what we are trying to do.
So I guess its impossible in practical terms for Pyrrhus to land in Sicily unless allied with Syracuse, as he can't land more than 10 SP in a space.Or go through Rhegium-Messana ...
I was looking at 5.1, under the description of Consuls:
PLACED: Usually, one in Rome, one in the Field. Latter may be assigned to province; see RRR 5.32.
Which is incorrect - both may be assigned to provinces.5.1 is a general comment, hence the refernce to 5.32. 5.32 is correct.
And in the Thunderbolt scenario, where there are no provinces assigned (the second question from my previous post)?Since the Romans need all the help they can get, we'll let yet you prorogue the consuls in T-bolt via scenario special rule ...
Alan, on the Campania tribal manpower table, are the numbers in your latest errata list correct, but should be in ascending order?Don't know but here is how it should be:
DR (a) (B) 0,1 1/0 4/0 2 2/0 7/1 3 3/0 11/1 4 4/0 14/2 5 5/0 17/3 6 6/0 21/3 7 6/1 24/4 8 7/1 28/4 9 9/1 31/5 a = Capua has a Roman garrison B = no Roman Garrison in Capua
1) When assigned a province, does he need senatorial permission to leave it?Yes. However, he can be prorogued.
2) If he is not assigned a province, can he move a consular army freely between provinces (within Roman Italy) without senatorial permission?Yes. However, he cannot be prorogued. This will be a less confusing in the next installment where the provinces will have some geographic distance. For example, assigned provinces will night be Roman Italy, Liguria (both), Gallia (Cispadana and Transpadana), Sicily (East and West), Spain (Nearer and Further), Africa, etc.
"How long do Augury effects last? EX: "Severe Drought in Italy" was rolled half-way through the LAMs on turn 5. Do the effects last until end of turn 5 or until the Augury LAM is picked during turn 6? (We were too afraid to play the latter. OUCH!!)"For that game turn.
I originally provided an example of a consul with a Sabinus Imperium moving his forces to Apulia with Senate approval and the turn then ending with those forces still in Apulia. Is the result of the changes above that the consul in the following turn must now take as his first action a return to his Imperium in Sabinus, or does Apulia become his new Imperium? I just want to be sure of the effects of the deletion and new ruling.In depends on whether you are talking prorogue or not. If the army was assigned Sabinus, and you prorogue the consul, the assignment stays Sabinus, and the Proconsul would need to hed back to Sabinus. If replace the new consul, then the assignment becomes Apulia, because that's where the army is.
Attrition accumulation: if a force's first move (hex) is to an adjacent province, does the force accumulate attrition for the province it started in?No.
Sieges: To win a siege, the entire garrison must be eliminated by siege attrition, PLUS the city's IDS, correct? Thus a force of 10 infantry in a medium city must take 14 (or 13) losses before the city is lost, correct?Yes. See 9.14.
In the above siege, the besieged force take losses on the 1-10 column (the garrison strength), correct? (i.e., the IDS doesn't count unless there are no SPs left)No. See 9.14.
Thunderbolt Specific: Leader Replacement: a Carthaginian leader is killed. Are there any replacements in Thunderbolt? (None mentioned in scenario, so are none available?)None mentioned, none available
One more thing. If the leader moves to another province without permission, passes his Censure roll, may he stay there permanently and not be removed, with a new Imperium, assuming he passes his Prorogue roll each turn?If the magistrate passes censure he is free to move where he wants that turn only. See RRR 5.44. And what's a prorogue roll?
the proconsul for Apulia would start in Rome, then he should ask Senate to go to Samnium and get the consular army although he wants to go to Apulia because the legion is in Samnium.So how did a Proconsul start in Rome again? Proconsul are always placed on Consular armies ...
I recruit 1 legion, then in another turn another legion... sure i can't combine them into a Consular army?If they are in the same hex and don't have a praetor already assigned, why not? Let me summarize some of the consul assignment-prorogue discussion:
"The active leader is for all...." - should this include the word 'used'? ....is used for all...?Yes.
Can you define 'carry' in the above?
I think he means that the Consul for Rome can move a force including a Proconsul, without the Proconsul having to get permission from the senate if the force leaves the Proconsul's assigned province.Correct.
Alan, if I have this right, if a Field Consul is placed into a province with a consular army he would thus need Senate approval to leave that province?The Field Consul needs Permssion to leaves his assigned province. It is conceivable that he could be placed with an army not in the province of assignment.
Also, within the realm of 6.12 (which allows a leader moving alone as his first operation to auto continue), why wouldn't I always start the Field Consul in Rome and then freely transfer him to an army which then can freely roam Italy without needing Senate approval?Nothing stopping you from doing this except RRR 5.36. If he starts in Rome he can pick up a un-led Consular army for himself.
Would the penalty in the above case be that since he started in Rome, and was not assigned to a province, he could thus not be prorogued?Correct.
Alan, all my questions, and problems, regarding the rule are that if I have 5 consular armies in the same province, 2 consular goes to 2 new Consuls, 1 to a Proconsul for that province and... what happens with the 4th and 5th Consular armies? Can a consul change consular armies or the army he is with is the same for all the turn?In order to sort this out, I will need to know which magistrates were with the armies and what the assigned provinces were for each, and who you deceided to prorogue.
Can a consul change consular armies or the army he is with is the same for all the turn?During an Operation, a consular could drop of some legions and pick up others as long as he was only commanding a consular army at any one time. The province assignment stays with the leader not the army. During elections, the consuls are placed per RRR 5.36.
So, to place a Field Consul with an army that's outside his assigned province, do we need to roll for Senate permission? Or is that permission assumed/automatic in the Election Phase?To do anything but move his assigned province, yes.
Alan, all my questions, and problems, regarding the rule are that if I have 5 consular armies in the same province, 2 consular goes to 2 new Consuls, 1 to a Proconsul for that province and... what happens with the 4th and 5th Consular armies? Can a consul change consular armies or the army he is with is the same for all the turn?
In order to sort this out, I will need to know which magistrates were with the armies and what the assigned provinces were for each, and who you deceided to prorogue.I see one area that its not covered. Add this after the second sentence of 5.32, Proconsul: "If the consular army is in a province already assigned to another magistrate, another available province must be assigned instead." Let me try another approach to sort through some of the confusion on elections, province assignment, prorogue, and Senate Permission. Each and every Roman magistrate is assigned a sphere of influence (Imperium), usually defined geographically in terms of a province, in which the magistrate is free to conduct Operations without permission of the Senate. A specific provincial Imperium can be held by only one magistrate at a time. A magistrates Imperium is assigned when the magistrate is brought into play either via election or through the Raising of new legions. The allowable Imperia by magistrates are as follows: Dictator/Magister Equitum: Any playable province (RRR 5.41, Exception #2). They are not assigned specific provinces (RRR 5.32). Consul For Rome: Any province in Roman Italy. In addition, the Consul for Rome can be assigned the province of Latium or any other province that as Consular army (provided that the province isnt assigned to someone else). See RRR 5.32 for a further restriction. The Consul for Rome is not required to have a province assigned to him. Field Consul: His assigned province or any province in Roman Italy. The Field Consul can be assigned any province that as Consular army (provided that the province isnt assigned to someone else), or be placed in Rome and thus have Roman Italy as his Imperium. The Field Consul is not required to have a province assigned to him. Proconsul: His assigned province. As noted in the errata, a proconsul must always be assigned a specific province. This must be a province that has a consular army that hasnt been already assigned to another magistrate. If the province has already been assigned, then any available province may chosen. Praetor: His assigned legion, however, he may not leave the province the legion is currently in without permission. Praetor Urbanus: Rome Garrison. See RR5.42/3 on the details. Consuls, Proconsuls, and Praetors can be Prorogued (kept in play) per RRR 5.35. A prorogued Proconsul retains his Imperium (here assigned province). A prorogued Praetor retains his assigned legion. A prorogued Consul becomes a Proconsul with his assigned province being his Imperium. Thus, a Consul without an assigned province cannot be prorogued. Magistrates are placed on the map per the amended RRR 5.36 above. Remember that Imperium and Senate Permission apply to LEAVING that Imperium. RRR 5.34 (amended) deals with what happens when a magistrate starts outside his Imperium. It seems that the last part of my prevoious post was cut off. Let me summarize, since I was getting a bit long winded. Can a consul carry along his collegue during a Campaign Phase? No. In my "lost" post I had list of examples where two Roman armies concentrated in area for a battle (Trebbia, Cannae, and Metaurus). They didn't get there because they were campaigning together. For thjose Cannae fans, remember that two consular armies were campaigning in the area under the Dictator Fabius. The two new consuls joined this new group with their armies and the rest is history. Can two consuls and their armies defend together? Yes, they must per 8.21. 5.44 is used to dtermine who is in charge. Avoidance is part of combat, so both armies can retreat together. Can two consuls and their armies attack together? Yes, through coordination and per 8.27 if they are in the same hex is automatic with 5.44 used to determine who is in charge. Can two consuls and their armies intercept together? The question that started it all. I answered NO and Richard Yes. Given the intent of interception (i. e. Combat) and since its not Campaiging together, I'm changing my answer to Yes. I have briefly reviewed the 150 or items that were posted in my absence. Most of the items I covered before. If you feel that you questions has not been answered definitevely, please post again. There is one new errata item:
Conquest of Central Italy Scenario Special Roman Rules - Legions: Every eighth (rather than tenth) SP raised as Reinforcements is considered cavalry.Here are some new questions that were raised: When does province control take effect? At the conclusion of an Operation. Remember that the a Retreat is part of the Attack Operation so Longus and crew can retreat into Placentia or Cremona. Can a Proconsul stacked with a Consul attack when his LAM is drawn? Yes. If the enemy is in the same hex, the Proconsul can automatically coordinate OC in the hex. If the consul is present his battle rating is used per 5.13. On Control -- Province control and city control are two different things. A player controls cities only through the actions in 11.2. If a player gains military or diplomatic control of province, uncontrolled cities in that province are now friendly to that player (and not to the other players) so the province controlling player may freely enter them, but he does not control them until he meets the conditions of 11.2.
The Dictator situation is more of a dilemma. I see what A-Ray wrote, but I hope he revisits the situation upon his return. It seems very gamey that no Dictator can appear because of the artificial Turn/LAM limits mandated by the system.Dictators held office for six months (half a game turn). When appointed after a significant, the dictator often had time to do little depending on when the battle occurred during the campaign sesaon. Think of the "no LAM to bring the dictator on" as a Dictator being appointed with 0 LAMs ...
Consuls to command (albeit poorly) Proconsuls and Praetors (at least up to the max of 8 [double] legions), the need to bring the Consuls together to fight an epic battle is minimal. The problem is getting all those leaders in play at once, I think.The limit is 4 double legions see 5.23, without permission of the senate. And note also that only a Dictator may ask ... see 5.45. I have reworded RRR 5.23 to hopefully make this a bit clearer:
(RRR 5.23) No Roman Magistrate may conduct Operations or Interceptions with more than four (4) double legions, plus auxiliaries/allies, regardless of how many magistrates you can gather in one place, unless the Roman Player gets Permission from the Senate to do so (see RRR 5.4). Note that this option is limited to the Dictator only.All SP in the hex that are attacked still must defend and Coorination is possible to bring to battle a larger force ...
The attrition was for an odd numbered attrition value province such as saminum.Per 6.41 fractions are retained. And when it comes to resolving the Attrition, ignore any partial APs.
9.32 mentions the accumulating of SP's for siege attrition purposes, cross-referencing the SP column with the die roll. No mention of doubling cavalry SP's as there is in Movement Attrition, 6.42. I'd like to get a ruling from Alan to be sure though. I'll ask him if he doesn't read this.Cavalry are doubled for all attrition purposes --- see the chart.
Pat, the first time I played Thunderbolt I made the mistake of thinking the Automatic Surrender only required 10 infantry SP's for small cities, thinking IDS of 1 x 10. Of course, it's SDS of 2 x 10, or 20 infantry required for an AS attempt just for small unoccupied cities. I thought of that when I saw above that you're dropping off SP's in one turn.You played it correctly the first time. 9.13 applies to garrisoned cities. And Its Involuntary Surrender and not automatic.
I am having a hard time grasping how Epirote manpower is raised in The First Alexander Invasion scenario. It states that as long as no other player controls the province or occupy each city, Alexander gets the SPs. But Alexander does not contol these provinces at the beginning of the game either.He doesn't have to control the province, only the cities. However, if the Romans or Samnites gain control over the province the city is in, he no longer receives the manpower.
I'm playing the Conquest of Central Italy for the third time, and I know I'm not the world's greatest player, and am only playing solitaire, and only this scenario for the third time, but the 10-turn limit to subdue the Samnites, to control every city in Samnium, every province in Roman Italy, for every tribal revolt to be put down, is quite a challenge, especially given that the Romans actually did so, but that it took them longer than 10 years to do so. It of course is quite possible that my strategies simply need to improve. 8^)You might want to re-read the victory conditions again. They are: 1) The Roman player needs to occupy all the cities in Samnium 2) The Alliance of all provinces level is neutral or pro-Roman -- control is not a requirement 3)No active tribes in revolt A couple of items to consider :
I hope you see where I'm coming from - have these rule changes/modifications changed the game enough so that scenario victory conditions should be reexamined?I don't think so. The playtesters tended to keep their forces dispersed and respected (and complained about the limitations of) RRR 5.23. I don't have any instances in my notes where the testers tried to have a Consul move another Consul -- RRR 5.22 seems pretty clear on that. As for the other clarifications, some were in the playtest rules already, some wre corrections from the playtests that slipped through the final edits, while others are minor points that have no effect on the long term outcome. Overall the testers felt that the main Samnite scenario was fairly balanced, if not slightly Pro-Roman, the Alexander scenario balanced between Rome and Samnium while a an uphill battle for Alexander, the Pyrrhus scenario slightly in favor of the great captain, and T-bolt a blowourt in favor of the Carthos.
3)No active tribes in revolt This is a toughie, given the augury chances of 43% for a revolt every turn. I currently have three revolts in progress, at least one has occurred each turn.Check out the Length of Activation rule. If the Roman player has military control even though the a revolt occurs, the tribe is not active.
Only three provinces begin the game pro-Samnite Can the Samnites go back to those two other provinces - Etruria and Umbria - and reconvert them to the Samnite side by converting the cities to their control? I haven't tried that strategy.They sure can.
There is only base 20% chance of a revolt By mid-game I usually have several legions over the 4 maxiumum for the die roll modifier, so by then I'm usually hitting the maximum Samnite reinforcement each turn anyway, taking the Samnite column switches for onboard SP's.Check the chart. only legions outside Roman controlled provinces add to the DRM.
Basically, I think the gamey problems center around the victory conditions and the Dictator rules. The victory conditions get gamed because Hannibal counts each Major Victory as a province for victory. This results in him repeatedly beating up the same consular army up north, especially on the first turn. The Dictator rules get gamed because it is possible for Hannibal to set things up to deny the Romans the Dictator, without whom they have no chance at all. So...Depends on how you play the Romans whether you get beat up multiple times. The Catho player will usually use his first LAM to attack and defeat the Romans. The smart Roman player will retreat into Placentia or Cremona and force Hanny to conduct a Seige. Nothing slows Hanny down like ending his Campaign phase to undertake Seige. You don't need Fabius to use Fabian tactics.
concerning revolts in Roman militarily-controlled provinces. Do revolts not occur in such provinces or would I roll for another province until I roll a province that's not militarily controlled?The revolt still occurs. Adjust the Alliance tracks accordingly. Place the tribe on the map per the Tribal Revolt Table. If the Roman player still has military control of the province, the tribe is removed per the length of activation rules.
The Romans have diplomatic control of Sabinus and thus the Proconsul with the Sabinus Imperium is free to move from town to town if he wishes during this time of peace. May he enter and place an SP in medium-sized Alba Fucens, which has not been entered before,Yes, and to control the medium city he would need to detach at least a 1 SP garrison.
and would this SP block any future revolts from occuring in any town in Sabinus because Rome now has military control?No, see above. The revolt occurs, the tribe is placed, and if the Romans still have military control, the tribe disappears. The Romans lose diplomatic control and the alliance level is in the 0 box per the Alliance Level rules.
It would be a good idea for the Roman in the meantime to establish a military presence in the medium and large cities during diplomatic control conditions so as not to have to force his way in during a revolt?Yes. It is also a good idea for the non-Roman player. The major powers tended to "help" their smaller allies by providing them garrisons ... Needless to say diplomatic control makes military control a lot easier. Over time you will find that dispersing your forces some is a good idea. For example, during the 2nd Macedonian War, Philip V probably had well over half of his available manpower tied up in various cities throughout Greece. The Romans did much the same as they wrested control from him.
I suppose the Dictator puts his 1 LAM into the pool (per the rules for leaders arriving during the turn, regardless of their rating) then immediately uses that LAM to perform a Manpower operation to raise those Legions, which would then be available next turn. But since the Dictator suddenly goes away (can't be prorogued), a new leader would have to command them.Confused? Based on the above, you have this down pat. I know you would all like to have those dictator triggers carry over to the next turn, especially in the T-bolt scenario, 'cause you know who your going to get (and he is pretty good). I suspect that there would be less of an outcry if you were drawing blindly from the pack ... However, Dicatators appointed due to lost battles tended to happen on the spot. Occupying a key city close to Rome usullay called for an appointed Dictator right after the elections. In the T-Bolt scenario, since we are dealing with an abbreviated first turn, I will add to the scenario special rule that the Dictator rules are not used on the first game turn. This will prevent Fabius from entering prematurely. Secondly, I will clarify what happens during a turn where the Romans have no LAMs left to bring on the Dictator -- The Roman player brings the Dictator in play at the conclusion of the current LAM. This is a change from my previous statement.
I'm not so sure of this.Hannibal needs to take the "gimme" first major victory and take Capua which means he needs to control only four contiguous provinces.
Roman strategy it seems to me is to get a garrison into at least one medium/large city in each province. Only Umbria, Picenum, Apulia and Lucania can be controlled without at least a medium city (and those provinces are non-contiguous).That's the idea. From the Carthos persepctive, they need to get there first. They also need to bottle up the Roman forces.
Hannibal just doesn't have time to siege a large number of cities (minimum of two entire campaign phases for each city, and he only gets 10).The Carthos have 5 other leaders with 7 LAMs. Use them.
Even taking a province like Apulia requires multiple Continuation rolls, and dispersal of Carthaginian resources. After the first battle, the Roman should never meet the Carthaginian in the field.Think Interception. The Romans will have to move to garrison the cities that they don't begin the game with. Also, don't forget about involuntary surrender. It works for medium cities if you have the infantry SP.
Secondly, I will clarify what happens during a turn where the Romans have no LAMs left to bring on the Dictator -- The Roman player brings the Dictator in play at the conclusion of the current LAM.
Is this also applicable only to the Thunderbolt scenario?No.
First, is it correct that the Samnites can cross multiple Roman-controlled provinces, but only trigger a tribal revolt in the province in which they Stop per the Samnite Incursion rules?Yes.
Does this then simulate a quickly-moving army that the provincial tribes cannot react to until it stops moving?People only got excited if an army stopped in their territory. They didn't mind someone passing through.
Second, is it true for this same Samnite War scenario that the normal Alliance Points for successful assault and attrition sieges of medium/large cities do not apply since they're not included in the RRR Diplomacy rules?Correct. That's why we added the special rule.
So in my above example of a Samnnite sacking of Capua, the Samnites earn no points on the Alliance Chart? The Samnites can only gain Diplomacy points by using Ambassadors and by Major Victories, and sieges of Medium/Large cities are not considered Major Victories in the Samnite scenario?Correct for diplomacy. Taking a Medium/Large city is still a major victory for purposes of ABS and Triumphs.
1) In 217 assuming a Dictator is raised, may Fabius[406] remain in Roma and nominate P.C. Scipio[401] as his Master of Horse? I assume YES.
The scenario lists who is master of Horse for Fabius.Correct, M. Minucius is the Master of Horse (not a proconsul).
2) If in 216 a Dictator is raised again, must it be Fabius [406]? i.e. does the special rule mean every time a Dictator is raised it is Fabius or does the ...serves only the year he is raised...mean a one year only special? I had assumed 1 year only but an opponent has interpreted this slightly differently.
We played draw from the cup.After the Fabius freebee, the normal rules apply.
3) Is city/town control/entry NOT required for road use? i.e. if I march a consular army along the road from Rome to Pisae do I a) need to control all towns along the route? and b) enter each of them with the associated continuation die roll? I am assuming each town has a bypass and that NO is the answer.
That's how we play it, and is implied by the example I think.No. Control or town entry has nothing to do with the 1 AP costs for using road-only movement within a Province. For controlled provinces, this cost is halved.
5) Does a successful siege/assault on a medium town or any town containing 20 enemy sp counts as a major victory for 1)after battle status - Disorg etc? 2) diplomatic effects? 3) Victory conditions? 4) Gallic manpower if in or north of Etruria/Umbria? I assume all of the above.Winning a Siege by Assault or Attrition of a city is a victory for ABS and Triumph purposes if the city held 20 infantry SP at the start of the Seige. If the city is Medium/Large city it would be a major victory. The Diplomatic effects are handled per 12.31. For victory in the T-bolt scenario, no.
4) Gallic manpower if in or north of Etruria/Umbria? I assume all of the above.Which would be the Ligurias, the Gallias, and Venetia
What happens to a leader caught alone in a hex?I take that the leader is not inside a city, alone in a hex, and enemy force enters the hex. If so, no effect on either party.
What exactly are the limits/restrictions on amalgamating armies? If I have a Consul with a consular army with 8 Inf and 2 cav, and a proconsul with a consular army with 15 inf and 4 cav, what are my options to amalgamate them? Do I need to have one consul drop off all SP and wait for the other to activate to pick them up? Is there any restriction on who drops off and who picks up?The active force (only) can detach SP. Per the revised RRR 10.26 a legion cannot detach its last SP and SPs must be detached as evenly as possible from all legions in the active force. An active legion force can pick up detached legion SP (this is a Stop for the Leader) but they must be evenly distributed amiong the legions in the active force. Note that entire legions can be picked up/dropped off per 6.24 and 6.25. The above restrictions apply to detaching/attaching SP.
A question on Roman manpower: If I have say 11 Roman Legions and 7 Allied legions in play, how many double legions does this count as for recruitment: 9 or 11?After checking my play test notes, I'm going to do a bit of back-pedalling on a prior answer I gave to a similar question. The text of RRR 10.22 is correct in that the column represents the number of legions (not double legions) in existence. I'll add a clarification. So the answer is 18. The roll would be made on the 17-20 column. Its unusual to have such disparity given that losses, attach/detach, and reinforcements are distrubuted evenly amongst the active/target force. I suppose you could get this type of distribution if group your RLs separately from your AL (which is allowed).
Per previous clarification, a higher-ranked leader can take command of a proconsular army and take it out of the proconsul's assigned province without asking Senate permission. If this is done, and the higher-ranked leader abandons the proconsul and his army in a province other than the one the proconsul is assigned to, what restrictions are there on the proconsul's movement? We played that the proconsul would have to return to his province on his next activation.Per the revised RRR 5.34, if the proconsul is outside his assigned province, he can conduct Leader Movement or Force Movement. If the latter, he can not voluntarily Stop until he enters his assigned province.
The Praetor Urbanus is not explicitly deployed at the start. I'll have to check my notes to see if we did this deliberately or whether we missed adding him to the set-up. Why don't you assume he's there, the Romans need all the help they can get.
Have you come up with an "official ruling" on this yet?Yes --- Praetor Urbanus: A Praetor Urbanus is deployed with the Rome garrison in all scenarios. Randomly pick one of the three available Praetor Urbani for the initial deployment.
Given the current rules on detachment of legion SPs, it appears that the Roman player can easily get into a situation where he has lots of worn armies, since armies are never totally wiped out.If you never use reinforcements this can happen.
This leads to an inability to recruit new legions,Only if you have deployed all 16 double legions in the counter mix. on the "worse" column of the recruiting column you have a 50% base chance to raise one double legion.
and the SP available from a reinforcement operation are puny (average 8 SPs in the Eagle scenario).There is an automatic +2 to all reinforcement die rolls, so there is a base 40% chance to raise 12 SP.
It would also seem to encourage odd tactics such as the non-Roman player avoiding battle (since more can be gained by reducing Roman recruitment than by smashing a tiny army),or strange tactics by the Roman player like making suicide attacks or running armies around the map to accumulate huge attrition totals. What else can usefully be done with a consular army where each legion has 2 SPs? If such an army is commanded by the Rome or Field consul the Roman has the additional penalty that each new consul gets command of the paper army.There is nothing stopping the Roman player from raising reinforcements and avoid putting himself in that predicament. Raising legions is more attactive when you don't have that many, or they are good shape. If not, you are served better with reinforcements. Keep in mind that to move a column on the Legion table, you have to lose/add about 5 legions. The expected value in terms of legions doesn't change that much from column to column.
When a proconsol seeks permission to leave his province there is a modifier on the chart of +1 which isn't mentioned under the rules section. Which is correct?The chart.
In other words, Pyrrhus should employ economy of force by commiting only one elephant and not the whole contingent. Why should he put the whole elephant contingent at risk when there is only the +5 modifier? Is this stretching the rules? Seems gamey.All the Elephants in the battle are committed.
I want to make sure I am doing the manpower actions correctly in the Conquest scenario. The Romans can raise legions multiple times in a year, ex. a dictator can raise legion on his firs LAM AND his second LAM. The Samnites can only raise manpower once per year, ex only using one LAM to raise manpower.Correct.
Hmm. That's a bit odd. To control a small city, you just need to have been the last to occupy it. Since the Romans just won the Samnite wars, we assumed they have control of all the small cities in Samnium since they were the last to occupy them, therefore they have military control of Samnium. That's the way we played it, anyway. I guess we played it wrong.Control is listed on the PIC. Samniunm is independent with a +2 to in favor of Pyrrhus.
So I guess the first move of the Romans should be to gain involuntary surrender of one small city in Samnium. That gives them military control, which gives them control of every small city not occupied by Pyrrhus. Makes it a bit harder for him to take, anyway.Close. To control a city (indicated by placing a control marker), you need to meet the requirements of 11.2. Those cities without control markers, though friendly (i. e. they can be freely entered) aren't controlled. I have changed the wording 6.37 to make the point clearer. 6.37 3rd sentence should read: A Force may freely enter a friendly controlled city or an uncontrolled city in a friendly controlled province. And the read the fourth sentence.